Nina Shaw

Lawyer


The Academy of Television Arts & Sciences Foundation Presents

02:26

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About
About this interview

In her two-and-a-half-hour interview, Nina Shaw describes growing up in Harlem, New York and attending Barnard College and Columbia Law School, and recalls how she became interested in pursuing a career as an entertainment lawyer. She speaks of her time at O'Melveny & Myers, working with clients Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin of Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, comments on the contributions of Lear and Yorkin to creating the business of syndication, and talks of negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s. She then discusses joining the firm Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum, speaks of negotiating deals for Robert Guillaume, and describes starting a firm with Ernie Del and Mike Rubel. Shaw explains how talent agents, managers, and lawyers work together, outlines what she looks for when negotiating endorsement deals for clients, and speaks of representing clients Ava DuVernay, Ta-Nehisi Coates, Arsenio Hall, and others. She talks of her involvement in The Hollywood Reporter Women in Entertainment Mentorship Program and in the Time's Up movement (she's one of the founding organizers), explains her primary responsibility to her clients, shares the best advice she's ever received, and comments on how she'd like to be remembered. Jenni Matz conducted the interview on May 2, 2018 in Beverly Hills, CA.

All views expressed by interviewees are theirs alone and not necessarily those of the Television Academy.

"When people get a taste of money and parity, it’s hard to ask them to step back... When people get a whiff of working in a workplace where they don’t have to be concerned for their safety, it’s hard to ask them to go back... When you give people rights, it’s hard to take those rights back."

Highlights
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company, Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, playing a major role in creating the business of syndication
02:55
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries
01:03
NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay hiring female directors, exclusively, on her series Queen Sugar
01:19
Nina Shaw on her involvement with the Time's Up movement and how the group came together
04:40
NIna Shaw on her involvement in The Hollywood Reporter Women In Entertainment Mentorship Program and the importance of mentorship
06:57
Nina Shaw on her primary responsibility to her clients
01:11
Full Interview

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Chapter 1

On her early years and influences; on her parents, grandparents, and family history; on her love of reading; on loving Saturday morning television as a child; on wanting to pursue a career in law
On attending Barnard College and Columbia Law School and wanting to pursue transactional law; on her summer internships and early jobs out of law school; on her interest in entertainment law; on Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications (Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company) being clients at O'Melveny & Myers; on working on contracts during her early years at O'Melveny & Myers and learning about the guilds; on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin playing a major role in creating the business of syndication
On negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries; on joining Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum; on working with Dixon Dern and Ernie Del; on Robert Guillaume becoming her first big client and making deals for him
On a seminal deal at Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum that became the basis for the film Stand and Deliver, and before that, for an episode of American Playhouse; on starting a firm with Ernie Del and Mike Rubel; on the goals of her new firm

Chapter 2

On selecting clientele to represent; on representing minors; on how talent agents, managers, and lawyers work together; on differences between negotiating talent deals for film v. television; on her negotiating style
On responding to changes in the industry - media consolidation, etc.; on negotiating endorsement deals for clients -- as in for Misty Copeland -- and on how the digital world has given people access to talent; on meeting Ava DuVernay and how she became a client; on Ava DuVernay preparing to make her first film, I Will Follow; on negotiating the Netflix deal for Ava DuVernay's film 13th; on Ava DuVernay's series Queen Sugar
On female directors often only being given "one shot to screw up"; on clients moving from film into television; on negotiations for Ta-Nehisi Coates, Lupita Nyong'o, Arsenio Hall, and other clients; on how the legislation that forbids employers from asking about pay history has impacted the industry; on her involvement with the film Red Tails; on her involvement in The Hollywood Reporter Women In Entertainment Mentorship Program

Chapter 3

On what she's learned by being a mentor; on writing an article in Variety about the lack of diversity in the 2017 Oscar nominations; on her involvement with the Time's Up movement and how the group came together; on the major initiatives of the Time's Up movement; on the relationship between the MeToo Tarana Burke movement and Time's Up; on how male allies can help the Time's Up movement; on the staying power of the Time's Up movement and changes she's seen in the industry
On her primary responsibility to her clients; on wanting people to see the law as virtuous; on inclusion riders; on what makes a good entertainment lawyer; on career regrets and her proudest career achievements; on the value of oral history interviews; on the best advice she's received; on how she'd like to be remembered
Shows

13th

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NIna Shaw on negotiating the Netflix deal for Ava DuVernay's film 13th
01:14

Academy Awards, The

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Nina Shaw on writing a 2017 article for Variety about the lack of diversity in Oscar nominations
04:16

All in the Family

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Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin creating the idea of spin-off shows and on navigating the corresponding new legal territory
02:07

American Playhouse

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Nina Shaw on a seminal deal at Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum that became the basis for the film Stand and Deliver, and before that, for an episode of American Playhouse
01:50

Benson

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Nina Shaw on getting introduced to Robert Guillaume and on him becoming her first big client; on making deals for him
05:29

Crown, The

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Nina Shaw on the types of deals that might happen on a show like The Crown, with different actors playing the same character over the course of the show
00:25
NIna Shaw on observing, from the outside, the pay discrepancies between Claire Foy and Matt Smith for their work on The Crown
06:03

East Side/West Side

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Nina Shaw on what it meant to see Cicely Tyson on East Side/West Side
00:23

Facts of Life, The

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Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals for minors in the 1970s and '80s (on The Facts of Life)
00:22

In Living Color

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Nina Shaw on representing Jamie Foxx for about twenty years
00:13

Jeffersons, The

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Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin creating the idea of spin-off shows and on navigating the corresponding new legal territory
02:07

Queen Sugar

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NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay solely hiring female directors on her series Queen Sugar; on the deal for Queen Sugar
03:10
NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay solely hiring female directors on her series Queen Sugar, contd.
01:29

Sanford and Son

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Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin pioneering the idea of taking existing formats in other countries, recreating them for American audiences, and navigating the corresponding new legal territory
02:07

Sing Along with Mitch

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Nina Shaw on watching Leslie Uggams on Sing Along with Mitch
00:14
Topics

Advice

View Topic
NIna Shaw on guidance/cautionary tales she'd offer to clients who rocket to stardom
00:51
NIna Shaw on the guidance she gave to a young Latinx mentee just starting her career
03:26
Nina Shaw on the best advice she's ever received
00:55
Nina Shaw on what she wishes she had known when she started out in her career
00:23

Barack Obama

View Topic
Nina Shaw on the timing of the Time's Up movement
02:02

Civil Rights Movement

View Topic
Nina Shaw on Robert Guillaume's role as a civil rights advocate
00:52

First Big Break

View Topic
NIna Shaw on her involvement in The Hollywood Reporter Women In Entertainment Mentorship Program and the importance of mentorship
06:57

Historic Events and Social Change

View Topic
Nina Shaw on how excited she and other family members would be during her childhood when a Black person would be on television -- memories of seeing Leslie Uggams on Sing Along with Mitch and of Cicely Tyson on East Side/West Side
01:06
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin bringing more Black characters to television and on the number of women who worked for Tandem
01:01
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries
01:03
Nina Shaw on joining Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum and on many firms not hiring women at that time
01:52
Nina Shaw on Robert Guillaume's role as a civil rights advocate
00:52
NIna Shaw on female directors often "having to get the one shot to screw up"
02:47
Nina Shaw on the relationship between the MeToo Tarana Burke movement and Time's Up
01:17

MeToo Movement

View Topic
Nina Shaw on the relationship between the MeToo Tarana Burke movement and Time's Up
01:17

Media Consolidation

View Topic
NIna Shaw on responding to changes in the industry - media consolidation, etc.
01:23

Overcoming Adversity

View Topic
NIna Shaw on her involvement in The Hollywood Reporter Women In Entertainment Mentorship Program and the importance of mentorship
06:57

Pivotal Career Moments

View Topic
NIna Shaw on her involvement in The Hollywood Reporter Women In Entertainment Mentorship Program and the importance of mentorship
06:57

Representation on Television

View Topic
Nina Shaw on how excited she and other family members would be during her childhood when a Black person would be on television -- memories of seeing Leslie Uggams on Sing Along with Mitch and of Cicely Tyson on East Side/West Side
01:06
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin bringing more Black characters to television and on the number of women who worked for Tandem
01:01
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries
01:03
Nina Shaw on joining Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum and on many firms not hiring women at that time
01:52
NIna Shaw on female directors often "having to get the one shot to screw up"
02:47

Television Industry

View Topic
NIna Shaw on responding to changes in the industry - media consolidation, etc.
01:23
NIna Shaw on guidance/cautionary tales she'd offer to clients who rocket to stardom
00:51
NIna Shaw on the guidance she gave to a young Latinx mentee just starting her career
03:26
Nina Shaw on the best advice she's ever received
00:55
Nina Shaw on what she wishes she had known when she started out in her career
00:23

Television and the Presidency

View Topic
Nina Shaw on the timing of the Time's Up movement
02:02

Underrepresented Voices

View Topic
Nina Shaw on how excited she and other family members would be during her childhood when a Black person would be on television -- memories of seeing Leslie Uggams on Sing Along with Mitch and of Cicely Tyson on East Side/West Side
01:06
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin bringing more Black characters to television and on the number of women who worked for Tandem
01:01
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries
01:03
NIna Shaw on female directors often "having to get the one shot to screw up"
02:47

Women

View Topic
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin bringing more Black characters to television and on the number of women who worked for Tandem
01:01
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries
01:03
Nina Shaw on joining Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum and on many firms not hiring women at that time
01:52
NIna Shaw on female directors often "having to get the one shot to screw up"
02:47
Professions

Attorney

View Profession
Nina Shaw on important factors for her to secure for a client, and what she was able to negotiate in her American Playhouse deal
01:54
Nina Shaw on important factors for her to secure for a client, and what she was able to negotiate in her American Playhouse deal
01:54
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin creating the idea of spin-off shows and navigating the corresponding new legal territory
02:07
Nina Shaw on her interest in entertainment law and why she chose to work at O'Melveny & Myers in Los Angeles; on there being few African-American lawyers at O'Melveny & Myers when she joined; on working in the entertainment department of O'Melveny & Myers with another African-American lawyer and getting used to there not being many African-American lawyers at that time
05:48
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries; on negotiating deals for minors
01:26
Nina Shaw on starting a firm with Ernie Del and Mike Rubel and on others who wanted to work at the firm; on the firm being a diverse group
02:06
Nina Shaw on selecting clientele to represent
02:07
Nina Shaw on representing minors
01:03
NIna Shaw on how talent agents, managers, and lawyers work together
01:53
NIna Shaw on differences between negotiating talent deals for film v. television
02:33
NIna Shaw on her negotiating style
01:35
NIna Shaw on responding to changes in the industry - media consolidation, etc.
01:23
NIna Shaw on negotiating endorsement deals for clients -- as in for Misty Copeland -- and on how the digital world has given people access to talent
01:22
NIna Shaw on dealing with infringement of clients' names and likenesses and the impact of right of publicity
01:52
NIna Shaw on how the legislation that forbids employers from asking about pay history has impacted the industry
06:54
Nina Shaw on her primary responsibility to her clients
01:11
Nina Shaw on the formality of attorney/client professional relationships
00:37
Nina Shaw on wanting people to see the law as virtuous
01:05
Nina Shaw on inclusion riders
02:24
Nina Shaw on the diversity at her then-current law firm
02:43
Nina Shaw on what makes a good entertainment lawyer
00:34
Nina Shaw on what she enjoys about coming to work each day
00:36
Nina Shaw on career regrets
Nina Shaw on her proudest career achievements
00:47

Representatives

View Profession
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin creating the idea of spin-off shows and navigating the corresponding new legal territory
02:07
Nina Shaw on her interest in entertainment law and why she chose to work at O'Melveny & Myers in Los Angeles; on there being few African-American lawyers at O'Melveny & Myers when she joined; on working in the entertainment department of O'Melveny & Myers with another African-American lawyer and getting used to there not being many African-American lawyers at that time
05:48
Nina Shaw on negotiating talent deals in the 1970s and '80s and how race and gender affected salaries; on negotiating deals for minors
01:26
Nina Shaw on starting a firm with Ernie Del and Mike Rubel and on others who wanted to work at the firm; on the firm being a diverse group
02:06
Nina Shaw on selecting clientele to represent
02:07
Nina Shaw on representing minors
01:03
NIna Shaw on how talent agents, managers, and lawyers work together
01:53
NIna Shaw on differences between negotiating talent deals for film v. television
02:33
NIna Shaw on her negotiating style
01:35
NIna Shaw on responding to changes in the industry - media consolidation, etc.
01:23
NIna Shaw on negotiating endorsement deals for clients -- as in for Misty Copeland -- and on how the digital world has given people access to talent
01:22
NIna Shaw on dealing with infringement of clients' names and likenesses and the impact of right of publicity
01:52
NIna Shaw on how the legislation that forbids employers from asking about pay history has impacted the industry
06:54
Nina Shaw on her primary responsibility to her clients
01:11
Nina Shaw on the formality of attorney/client professional relationships
00:37
Nina Shaw on wanting people to see the law as virtuous
01:05
Nina Shaw on inclusion riders
02:24
Nina Shaw on the diversity at her then-current law firm
02:43
Nina Shaw on what makes a good entertainment lawyer
00:34
Nina Shaw on what she enjoys about coming to work each day
00:36
Nina Shaw on career regrets
Nina Shaw on her proudest career achievements
00:47
Genres

Awards Shows

View Genre
Nina Shaw on writing a 2017 article for Variety about the lack of diversity in Oscar nominations
04:16

Classic Anthology Series

View Genre
Nina Shaw on a seminal deal at Dern, Mason, Swerdlow & Floum that became the basis for the film Stand and Deliver, and before that, for an episode of American Playhouse
01:50

Comedy Series

View Genre
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin creating the idea of spin-off shows and on navigating the corresponding new legal territory
02:07

Drama Series

View Genre
NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay hiring female directors, exclusively, on her series Queen Sugar; on the deal for Queen Sugar
05:58
NIna Shaw on observing, from the outside, the pay discrepancies between Claire Foy and Matt Smith for their work on The Crown
06:03
People

Alan Horn

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company, Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, being a client of O'Melveny & Myers
00:22

America Ferrera

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Nina Shaw on America Ferrera's involvement with the Time's Up movement
02:44

Arsenio Hall

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Nina Shaw on representing Arsenio Hall
01:11

Ava DuVernay

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on working with Ava DuVernay
00:16
NIna Shaw on meeting Ava DuVernay and how she became a client; on the Urban Beauty Collective
04:01
NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay preparing to make her first film, I Will Follow
02:53
NIna Shaw on negotiating the Netflix deal for Ava DuVernay's film 13th
01:14
NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay hiring female directors, exclusively, on her series Queen Sugar; on the deal for Queen Sugar
03:10
NIna Shaw on Ava DuVernay hiring female directors, exclusively, on her series Queen Sugar
01:19
Nina Shaw on inclusion riders as opposed to the way Ava DuVernay does hiring
00:48

Bernie Brillstein

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Nina Shaw on adoring Bernie Brillstein
00:46

Bill Boulware

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NIna Shaw on long-time clients: Bill Boulware
00:28

Bud Yorkin

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Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company, Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, being a client of O'Melveny & Myers
00:11
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin bringing more Black characters to television and on the number of women who worked for Tandem
01:01
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company, Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, playing a major role in creating the business of syndication
02:55

Charles Floyd Johnson

View Interview Page
Nina Shaw on the first time she met George Lucas -- when he was preparing to make the film Red Tails
04:22
Nina Shaw on working with George Lucas and Charles Floyd Johnson to make the film Red Tails
00:27

Cicely Tyson

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on what it meant to see Cicely Tyson on East Side/West Side
00:23

Claire Foy

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on observing, from the outside, the pay discrepancies between Claire Foy and Matt Smith for their work on The Crown
06:03

Dixon Dern

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Nina Shaw on working with attorney Dixon Dern
04:55

Donald L. Taffner, Sr.

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Nina Shaw on working with attorney Dixon Dern, who had recently taken on client Donald L. Taffner (D.L. Taffner)
01:01

Ernest Del

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Nina Shaw on her phone interview with attorney Ernest Del when she applied to work at his firm and on knowing that other firms were not hiring African-American attorneys
03:08

F. Gary Gray

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Nina Shaw on negotiating deals for F. Gary Gray
00:20

George Lucas

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on the first time she met George Lucas -- when he was preparing to make the film Red Tails
04:22
Nina Shaw on working with George Lucas and Charles Floyd Johnson to make the film Red Tails
00:27

James Earl Jones

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on long-time clients: James Earl Jones
00:19

Jamie Foxx

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on representing Jamie Foxx for about twenty years
01:38
Nina Shaw on negotiating the deal for Jamie Foxx for the film Ray
01:05

Karen Richardson

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on the timing and aims of the Time's Up movement
02:02

Lena Waithe

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Nina Shaw on representing Lena Waithe
00:09

Leslie Uggams

View Interview Page
Nina Shaw on watching Leslie Uggams on Sing Along with Mitch
00:14

Lupita Nyong'o

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on negotiations for Lupita Nyong'o, who had a sudden jump to global fame after 12 Years a Slave
01:18

Marcus Scribner

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on representing minors
01:03

Matt Smith

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on observing, from the outside, the pay discrepancies between Claire Foy and Matt Smith for their work on The Crown
06:03

Misty Copeland

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on negotiating endorsement deals for clients -- as in for Misty Copeland -- and on how the digital world has given people access to talent
01:22

Nick Cannon

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on representing minors
01:03

Norman Lear

View Interview Page
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company, Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, being a client of O'Melveny & Myers
00:11
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin bringing more Black characters to television and on the number of women who worked for Tandem
01:01
Nina Shaw on Norman Lear and Bud Yorkin's company, Tandem Productions/T.A.T. Communications, playing a major role in creating the business of syndication
02:55
Nina Shaw on how the skills she learned at her first job at O'Melveny & Myers negotiating for Normal Lear helped her throughout her career
00:41

Oprah Winfrey

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on the deal for Ava DuVernay's series Queen Sugar
01:12

Quincy Jones

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Nina Shaw on becoming close with Quincy Jones
01:43

Reuben Cannon

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Nina Shaw on the first time she met George Lucas -- when he was preparing to make the film Red Tails
04:22

Robert Guillaume

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Nina Shaw on getting introduced to Robert Guillaume and on him becoming her first big client; on making deals for him
05:29

Roger Ebert

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NIna Shaw on Roger Ebert's favorable review of Ava DuVernay's film, I Will Follow
01:17

Ruth E. Carter

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Nina Shaw on costume designer Ruth E. Carter on her experience hiring her team for Black Panther
00:32

Sammy Davis, Jr.

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Nina Shaw on she and Arsenio Hall both being close to Sammy Davis, Jr.
04:16

Shonda Rhimes

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Nina Shaw on the timing and aims of the Time's Up movement
00:46

Sidney Poitier

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Nina Shaw on a comment by Sidney Poitier on just wanting to be an actor some days, but having to be both an actor and a civil rights advocate
00:33
Nina Shaw on her father becoming Sidney Poitier's chauffeur
03:36

Susan Rovner

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on the deal for Ava DuVernay's series Queen Sugar
01:12

Suzanne de Passe

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Nina Shaw on becoming close with Suzanne de Passe and having gatherings for women of color in the industry at Sammy Davis Jr.'s house
01:52

Ta-Nehisi Coates

View Person Page
NIna Shaw on negotiations for Ta-Nehisi Coates
01:18

Tina Tchen

View Person Page
Nina Shaw on the timing and aims of the Time's Up movement
02:02

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